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Keep/Repeal The 8th, Referendum?
 
 Poll Choices 18 Total Votes
66.67% / 12 Votes
33.33% / 6 Votes
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# 76 : Monday 26-9-2016 @ 15:12
 
 
Someone said :

You do realize and this is an important note in the debate
That abortion was illegal before 1983
The 8th amendment simply put it into the constitution

Abortion has been illegal in Ireland since the 1860's and if the 8th is repealed it will still be illegal

Yes the 2013 law will apply but it will be possible to liberalise the law and go further than the 2013 law.

Of course it really depends what happens

The 8th (and 13th and 14th) amendment could simply be deleted or it could be amended.

The whole thing is much more complex than repeal the eigth suggests as a slogan
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# 77 : Monday 26-9-2016 @ 15:19
 
 
Yes it is much more complicated. There is a casam of different opinions and beliefs between anti repeal and abortion on demand and the debate may have to happen before the referendum
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# 78 : Tuesday 27-9-2016 @ 10:48
 
 
The sooner this passes the better.
It's about time that women were trusted, which is basically what this all comes down to.
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# 79 : Thursday 15-12-2016 @ 21:33
 
 
Submissions to the citizens assembly close at 5pm Tomorrow

http://www.citizensassembly.ie/en/Submissions/

I'd encourage everyone to make a personal submission
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# 80 : Saturday 21-10-2017 @ 11:44
 
 
Interestingly this referendum will take place a few weeks before the August "World Meeting of Families."

It will also be likely that the referendum will not be about repealing the 8th.
Simply because an amendement cannot be repealed!

Someone said :
Any provision of this Constitution may be amended, whether by way of variation, addition, or repeal, in the manner provided by this Article.

Every amendement are "Amending Acts", even those rejected, and are published before the constitutional provisions, and thus cannot be considered "provisions" of this constitution, and therefore cannot be themselves amended ("by way of variation, addition, or repeal")
This is what happened before with the 19th Amendement: it allowed for changes to Article 2 and 3 IF the gvt was satisfied that the Good Friday agreement was respected. THEN it provided for the removal of the transitional measures from the constitution. But the Amendement itself remains.

All we can do is amend the constitution to vary the Article 40.3.3, or repeal it.
But the 8th Amendement would still be in the constitution: only its effect would have been reversed/varied.

Otherwise, it would put in question all the other amendements since the 8th, as at some level if the 8th had never existed...

- Specifically, how would the 12th Amendment have faired? Would it have been adopted?

- What about the 13th and 14th Amendements, which added to Article 40.3.3. They were adopted. So they would need to be repealed too, as they start by referencing the subsection added by the 8th Amendement!
Would they need to be put back to the public for consideration?

- If you want to repeal the 8th, would you campaign to also repeal the 13th and 14th, giving freedom of travel and information ("relating to services lawfully available in another state.")?

So clearly, beyond the "Repeal the 8th" slogan, which is a pure marketing vehicle, the reality is about what will happen to Article 40.3.3:
- Repeal/remove the whole subsection? (Including right to travel/inform), and be in the same uncertainty as in 1983.
- Edit the wording to be less restrictive, and qualify the priorities: taking into account the unborn, but not acknowledging a "right to life", or making that right not equal to that of the mother
- Edit to constitutionalize the right to travel/inform (abroad), changing the very nature of that sub-section
- Edit to constitutionalize the right to service/travel/inform (at home or abroad), legalizing abortion!

The gvt will choose the wording, and will consider (or pretend to consider) which wording to adopt. And that could make all the difference.
But one thing is sure: it is not as simple as "repealing the 8th"...


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# 81 : Saturday 21-10-2017 @ 19:01
 
 
In my opinion the 8th Amendment being in place was responsible for the death of Savita Halapannavar. This huge injustice alone is why the 8th should be repealed.

You can be sure that the campaigning from both sides in the run up to next year's referendum will be vicious and dirty, with lots of lies and distorted truths peddled. It will make the run up to the 2015 same-sex marriage referendum seem like peanuts in comparison.
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# 82 : Sunday 22-10-2017 @ 00:10
 
 
The government will have 8 or more subjects for referendum ballot next year and this may dilute some of the 8th, there's giving voting rights to overseas citizens and reducing the voting age and something about the seanad will surely come up.
The only thing that won't be voted on next year is retaining water as property of the Irish people which strangely they are delaying.
But I think they hope a flood of issues will dilute the 8th issue a bit.
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# 83 : Sunday 22-10-2017 @ 00:43
 
 
The 8th referendum is going to be a sole referendum. The others will be rolled out over the next two years.
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# 84 : Sunday 22-10-2017 @ 15:48
 
 

In my opinion the 8th Amendment being in place was responsible for the death of Savita Halapannavar. This huge injustice alone is why the 8th should be repealed.

probably but accidents happen
It is as likely someone would have died over the last 30 years if abortion was legal due to complications
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# 85 : Sunday 22-10-2017 @ 16:45
 
 
What happened to Savita was no accident!

And legal or illegal, abortions still happen.
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# 86 : Sunday 22-10-2017 @ 16:48
 
 
I have never heard of anyone in ireland getting an illegal surgical abortion
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# 87 : Sunday 22-10-2017 @ 17:03
 
 
http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/emily-s-story-an- etc ...

An increasing number of women are opting to terminate pregnancies in Ireland itself

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# 88 : Sunday 22-10-2017 @ 22:37
 
 
I can't really see a woman spending 14 years in jail for having an abortion.
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# 89 : Sunday 22-10-2017 @ 23:49
 
 
Why do men think they can discuss women's bodies? If men could get pregnant would we even be having a discussion?
Ireland both north and south are ridiculous because the issue isn't dealt with and it's exported to Britain.
The 8th is a fudge and it puts women's lives at risk and the worst effect it has in our medical systems is it slows doctor reactions and that causes poor patient outcomes.
it has to go
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# 90 : Monday 23-10-2017 @ 06:44
 
 
Someone said :
Why do men think they can discuss women's bodies? If men could get pregnant would we even be having a discussion? [...]

Are you suggesting that only female TD's and Senators should be allowed to vote on the proposed referendum?
And that only female voters be allowed to vote on it?

You do realize that the 8th Amendement, making the unborn's right to life equal to that of the mother, was passed by 66.90%?
Do you think no women voted then, in 1983?

You do realize (but do you care) that the 13th, about allowing for travel, was passed by 62.39%. (It was not referring explicitly to any "procedure"...) This was in 1992

And of course, you see that on the same day as the 13th, the 14th was only passed by 59.88%. This was explicitly about freedom to be informed about "information relating to services lawfully available in another state."
Do you think that the 2.51% difference were only men, who allow women to travel to but only if they are uninformed, or if all they want is visit Big Ben?

You realize that the anti-abortion activist UCD students' union president is Katie Ascoug, a woman!

Or maybe you mean that only women who have been pregnant should be allowed a say in the matter?
Or do you mean that only women who had pregnancies terminated ni ways that are not legal in the State should have their say.

And of course, only people subject to paying VAT back to the State should have a say on the VAT rate. And only children should vote on child protection. And only drinkers and smokers should vote on excise duties. What about people who vape?
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