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Housing Bust - Better To Run Away?
 
# 1 : Sunday 15-2-2009 @ 21:33
 
 
There have been many instances where people who bought overpriced housing at the peak of the property bubble are now in serious mortgage arrears and unable to repay their loan and/or clear their arrears.

It seems that many are now planning to do a runner to another country and hand the keys back to the bank/lender - known as "Jingle Mail." The problem is, not only is this action incredibly selfish and irresponsible, the lending institutions can track people down and make them pay up eventually.

Also, they could be denied any credit permanently should they decide ever to return - Ireland simply does not have bankruptcy protection laws for individuals in serious loan arrears.

I've seen more and more online threads on message boards about this issue, with many OPs planning to do a runner and evade their resposibilities.

Here's one in boards.ie:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055488982



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# 2 : Sunday 15-2-2009 @ 21:39
 
 
What an incredibly scummy thing to do. Bloody Australians.

I doubt too many Irish people would do it. Too much Catholic guilt - the shame it would bring to the family etc...
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# 3 : Sunday 15-2-2009 @ 21:43
 
 
When the bank sells the house you are still responsible for the balance between what you borrowed and what they flogged it for. Many think that handing back the keys is the end of their problems.
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# 4 : Sunday 15-2-2009 @ 21:45
 
 
i disagree the banks were lending irresponsibly. In America there are class actions being taken against the bank for such irresponsible lending so why not here. What happened to 2 and half time your income. It went out the window the minute the banks could sell the morgage as a derivitive.
So up there swiss rolls The poor greedy banks.
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# 5 : Sunday 15-2-2009 @ 21:48
 
 
I disagree with a lot of this bank bashing.
You wanted the house, you got the mortgage, you signed the forms.
There is too much excusing of self reponsibilty going on.
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# 6 : Sunday 15-2-2009 @ 21:55
 
 
Someone said :
I disagree with a lot of this bank bashing.
You wanted the house, you got the mortgage, you signed the forms.
There is too much excusing of self reponsibilty going on.

Yes they are the money people they should have acted more responsibly.
I will bash those banker wankers till the cows come home.
People took the morgage out on hope and rising markets, i know people in that position, not nice, but hopilly the year amnesty will make things better
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# 7 : Sunday 15-2-2009 @ 21:57
 
 
Someone said :

People took the morgage out on hope and rising markets,

That's the gamble they took, based on prevailing market conditions. You can't blame the banks for that.
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# 8 : Sunday 15-2-2009 @ 21:58
 
 
Running away could be a very stupid thing to do, the bank will persue you for the difference between the sales price and the outstanding mortgage and will be forced to sell the property in a crippled market. You would never get a loan again in Ireland and it wouldn't surprise me if international credit ratings were on the horizon with so many banks merging / being bought out. Much better to go in and talk to the bank, the may agree to allow to match rental payments to mortgage payments in the short term allowing a eventually sale in a better market. Can't just blame the banks and run away, you got the loan at the end of the day.
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# 9 : Sunday 15-2-2009 @ 22:00
 
 
I can blame them for giving out morgages on a nudge and a wink and nearly incouraging falsifying the application. As I said they did not care they sold it on as another persons problem
hence the mess
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# 10 : Sunday 15-2-2009 @ 22:13
 
 
There's no doubt there was alot of reckless lending but at the end of the day the individual is responsible for their debt. Mortgage brokers were terrible for encouraging high levels of debt and banks will have to be more willing to negiotate terms etc to resolve alot of these issues. Running away won't help anyone and the country will completely collapse if people run away from the country leaving vacant properties with alot of bank debt. I think long term renting is a great option personally. Live debt free.
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# 11 : Sunday 15-2-2009 @ 22:14
 
 
I think it's sad and shocking that so many people were grossly irresponsible during the bubble years and let all their common sense and prudence jump out of the window in taking out jumbo mortgages and loans. Now, many of them are in serious arrears and are blaming the "evil" banks for giving them the loans. No-one forced them at gunpoint to get indebted up their their eyeballs.

And then there were so many of the so called "canny" and "savvy" small time investors who got easy money form the banks and building societies and thought that they could have a go - and succeed - at the property speculation (i.e. gambling) game, only to be ruined financially.

Here's a sad story of one Dublin pilot who played the property game and lost. His salary was €52,000 a year yet he amassed loans of €8 million. There are many more like him around the country:
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/sad-snapshots-of-one-f etc ...

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# 12 : Sunday 15-2-2009 @ 22:33
 
 
It's a tough time for that pilot and his family and it is a prime example of reckless lending, a guy with income of €52k a year having that much debt is just ridiciously but he like others got very greedy and kept borrowing, why does someone ever need to own 12 properties? It was getting completely crazy, people were getting top ups on their home mortgages to have the holiday home abroad or the second home to rent out, it was all based on greed. Had to stop, its a pity it all had to collapse the way it has though, the likes of this guy in the article will have very tough years ahead methinks.
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# 13 : Sunday 15-2-2009 @ 22:53
 
 
Someone said :
i disagree the banks were lending irresponsibly. In America there are class actions being taken against the bank for such irresponsible lending so why not here. What happened to 2 and half time your income. It went out the window the minute the banks could sell the mortgage as a derivitive.
So up there swiss rolls The poor greedy banks.

Class action suits are not allowed under Irish law.

In the States the mortgage is tied to the property not the person. If you give the keys back you’re free of the debt. That's why their banks are in so much trouble. In Ireland the debt is tied to the person not the property, so if you walk away you still lose the house, but they'll find you, extract their vengeance and ruin your life.

That pilot was an idiot. The banks shouldn't have lent him the money, but what he did was gamble. His complaints are like those of someone complaining they didn't win at roulette - you take the gamble and live with the consequences. He wouldn’t be complaining about irresponsible lending if he made a mint now would he?
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# 14 : Sunday 15-2-2009 @ 22:57
 
 
I blame Sarah Beeny and Phil & Kirsty. They made it all look so easy... Buy a house on a commuter belt and a weekend pad in the city, then just buy a rundown apartment and convert it to something bigger and let it out... blah blah blah

I think the new series is called... Repossession, Repossession, Repossession.
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# 15 : Sunday 15-2-2009 @ 22:59
 
 
Someone said :
I blame Sarah Beeny and Phil & Kirsty. They made it all look so easy... Buy a house on a commuter belt and a weekend pad in the city, then just buy a rundown apartment and convert it to something bigger and let it out... blah blah blah

I think the new series is called... Repossession, Repossession, Repossession.

They did didn't they

Even the shittest job always made a profit. I don't think I saw anyone make a loss on those programmes.
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