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Where Are The Promised Beneficial Effects From Lisbon?
 
# 16 : Friday 22-10-2010 @ 22:18
 
 
Jeez the consipracy throry tinfoil hat brigade are out in force this evening...

Fact is that membership of the European Union has benifitted Ireland hugely - billions tranferred to modernise our infrastructure, huge law reforms in favour of equality and LGBT rights, and free trade which allowed the Celtic Tiger boom to happen in the first place.

Let's see how far we'd get outside of the EU...
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# 17 : Friday 22-10-2010 @ 22:19
 
 
And there will be abortions for all.
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# 18 : Friday 22-10-2010 @ 22:29
 
 
Europe did take an estimated 210 billion worth of fish from our waters also the eastern europeans sent about 20 billion back home to their mother countries during the boom. So on balance we gave more to Europe then we got.

But there was the European led social development, which we could have done ourselves plus the access to the market which we would have got without joining, so.....what has Europe ever done for us..

I really have mixed emotions about the benefits of the EU for Ireland.
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# 19 : Saturday 23-10-2010 @ 02:02
 
 
Someone said :
And there will be abortions for all.

And miniature USE flags for some.
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# 20 : Saturday 23-10-2010 @ 13:12
 
 
The ink is barely dry on lisbon and already the french and Germans are contamplating a revision to suit their needs.
Messy

New York Times.
BRUSSELS — The European Union’s last effort to enact a new treaty took eight years, prompted referendum no votes in three nations and has so far failed to deliver convincing results.

So could the Union really be about to risk the same thing all over again?

Less than a year after the Lisbon Treaty, the bloc’s rule book, came into force, an effort to alter it became likely this week when France supported German calls for fresh changes — this time to shore up the rules governing the euro.

Policy makers in Berlin hope that the modifications will not require reopening the Lisbon Treaty, but can instead be tacked on to an uncontroversial treaty that the Union must agree to when it admits Croatia as a member.

But in the European Union, things rarely end up that simply. Already analysts warn that any new negotiation could open a Pandora’s box — and might trigger referendums within the bloc.

Any revision needs approval by all 27 governments. Charles Grant, director of the Center for European Reform, said that if there was a treaty change “there is a danger that other countries will jump on the bandwagon and introduce their pet likes and dislikes.”

Earlier this week, Íñigo Méndez de Vigo, a senior figure in the European Parliament’s main center-right European People’s Party, called for a “convention” to be convened if there is a treaty rewrite. Such a body spent 18 months negotiating the ill-fated European Constitution, which was rejected by French and Dutch voters in 2005.

After those no votes, the Lisbon Treaty, which replaced the constitution, was deliberately drafted to avert the need for referendums. Even so, Ireland still put the Lisbon Treaty to a nationwide vote, which was lost before being later re-run. Any repeat of this would prove a huge distraction, said one European Union foreign minister speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue.

The reason the Union is contemplating such a step lies in its biggest nation, Germany, which pays most into the bloc. After this year’s debt crisis in Greece sparked turmoil in the financial markets, Germany was ultimately forced to help put in place a massive financial backstop to stave off the prospect of a bankruptcy within the euro zone.

The life span of this so-called European Financial Stability Facility, established in May, is limited to three years, and Germany insists that any permanent replacement requires a treaty change. Only this would be enough to satisfy Germany’s constitutional court of its legitimacy.

Germany would like new measures to permit debt restructuring for nations on the verge of default, and might also seek to penalize countries that fail to keep their economies in shape by suspending their E.U. voting rights.

Thomas Klau, senior political analyst at the European Council on Foreign Relations said, “If there is no restructuring of debt it is an encouragement for bankers to lend knowing that there is an unlimited pot of E.U. money to call on.”

France granted its support for treaty change on Monday in exchange for a softening of proposed rules on punishing countries that fail to curb deficits. With the two biggest euro-zone nations on board, the move to change the rule-book is becoming hard to resist.

But few other nations actively favor it, and neither José Manuel Barroso, the European Commission president, nor Herman Van Rompuy, president of the European Council, is enthusiastic. One reason is technical: It is not clear that changes related to the euro could be included in Croatia’s accession treaty.

Worse are the political complications. The prospects of referendums being triggered in Ireland, and even in non-euro-zone Denmark, are high because of those nations’ constitutions.

In addition, the Czech President, Vaclav Klaus, a euro skeptic who held up the Lisbon Treaty ratification, could do the same to any new treaty.

The issue could also face hurdles in Britain, where Prime Minister David Cameron has told Germany’s chancellor, Angela Merkel, that no new powers should be transferred from Britain to the E.U. Since Britain does not use the euro, that ought to be possible. But British critics of the Union want Mr. Cameron to go further and make his agreement on a treaty change conditional on Britain regaining some powers it has already ceded to the bloc.

“Hopefully the French and Germans and the E.U. institutions will insist on this being a very narrow and specific treaty change on euro-zone governance that would allow Cameron to face down the Conservative Euroskeptics,” Mr. Grant said.

Next week’s E.U. summit will be a test of whether Berlin and Paris can get their way. But the momentum is with them.

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# 21 : Saturday 23-10-2010 @ 13:15
 
 
anyone who believed that was stupid you voted for dictatorship
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# 22 : Saturday 23-10-2010 @ 13:25
 
 
Wow
It really does show the tennit is true, no nation does any other nation any favours that does not lead to their advantage.

But in saying that the Euro is at a very worrying stage, it truly is in danger of collapsing and it wont be like we slip back into the old Euro currencies with no problem. It will literally mean me taking chickens to town when I am going for a drink, on the assumption town will at that stage have drink to barter.
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# 23 : Saturday 23-10-2010 @ 14:06
 
 
Someone said :
anyone who believed that was stupid, you voted for dictatorship

+1, it should be noted that hitler was democratically elected, the political elite know that the people will vote on what they want to hear, can be used by the elite if the masses of people are frightened. especially if the people are frightened of loseing all their money that was created out of thin air by the banks and is not worth the digital paper its not printed on.
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# 24 : Saturday 23-10-2010 @ 15:17
 
 
Someone said :
Europe did take an estimated 210 billion worth of fish from our waters also the eastern europeans sent about 20 billion back home to their mother countries during the boom. So on balance we gave more to Europe then we got.

But there was the European led social development, which we could have done ourselves plus the access to the market which we would have got without joining, so.....what has Europe ever done for us..

I really have mixed emotions about the benefits of the EU for Ireland.

All very true........... Also we gave away any oil or gas the may be found to the rich oil companies..... In effect any natural resorse we had, we gave away..........

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# 25 : Saturday 23-10-2010 @ 15:27
 
 
Someone said :

All very true........... Also we gave away any oil or gas the may be found to the rich oil companies..... In effect any natural resorse we had, we gave away..........

dont forget coillte which has about 7% of the land surface of ireland, that is being sold off too.. i have to laugh some people still insist that rich people would never conspire against poor people
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# 26 : Saturday 23-10-2010 @ 15:28
 
 
The politicians are selling the irish people out to the rich, with all the rights to its minerals and valuable assets in return for jobs for the boys when they retire or voted out of politics. Has anyone heard of a known politician on the dole yet, The first decision on a referrendum should be accepted, when you have a second and third till you get the answer you want just discredits it. All of Europe should have the right to decide, thats democracy anything else is not!
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# 27 : Saturday 23-10-2010 @ 15:45
 
 
Someone said :
Jeez the conspiracy theory tinfoil hat brigade are out in force this evening...

Gaire attracts them

As you say, I shudder to think of an Ireland outside the EU, backward and broke... I think I said it before, I would prefer to trust my future to the EU than anyone I have seen in charge of this Country
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# 28 : Saturday 23-10-2010 @ 15:56
 
 
Ireland and its fishing grounds it's was such a bounty of wealth, it is not only a fishing area it is among the richest fishing grounds in the world. It has being fished unsustainabley by Europe's fleet for the last 30 years and is in dire trouble. It is facing a Canadian left banks situation where the sea is virtually dead from over fishing. Still Europe want to reduce our 10 mile limit, which the fleets regularly abuse, which is taking the piss if you ask me.

210 billion is a very low estimate as to what the factory ships from Europe extracted from these very rich waters.

We have a goldmine swimming up our western coast this time of year the North Atlantic tuna we leave them alone which you should as it is one of the planets last great animal migrations, but when they get to the med they are poached to fuck by countries who couldn't be arsed enforcing the quotas they are so valuable there is actual mafia involvement in the poaching.

Ah well "we could have being a contender"
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# 29 : Saturday 23-10-2010 @ 15:57
 
 
Someone said :

Gaire attracts them

As you say, I shudder to think of an Ireland outside the EU, backward and broke... I think I said it before, I would prefer to trust my future to the EU than anyone I have seen in charge of this Country

If backward you mean run the the vatican i can assure you that wont happen as long as im alive. All 3 leaders of the main partys all said vote for lisbon, even though they did not read it themselves, it is pretty clear there loyaltys are to the elite of europe and not to running this country properly and the attitude of the people of ireland should be told how to run there lives by a foreign power i find very disgusting. Those who do not know there history are doomed to repeat it
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# 30 : Wednesday 25-11-2015 @ 18:22
 
 
Reading on how the Supreme Court have ruled that the State had a case to answer in a public interest petition first entered six years ago on questions on abridgement of citizens’ rights in the holding of the second Lisbon Treaty referendum following the initial rejection of the Treaty in 2008.

Seeing how the state didn't send representation to the hearing, it has being ordered to deliver all relevant papers to the petitioner and prepare a answer etc.

Not sure it's not in the main stream news?
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