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Census 2011
 
# 1 : Wednesday 4-8-2010 @ 23:36
 
 
Next year (barring another foot and mouth outbreak, or similar), we will have a census. By that time, the Civil Partnership and Certain Rights and Obligations of Cohabitants Act 2010 should be in operation, assuming the government has no difficulty with the budget and the changes it is due to bring concerning the tax and social welfare status of registered couples.

Last year, the Central Statistics Office tested new wordings for census questions to take account of the planned new legal status. That test used two possible census forms, alternating them between the houses in the test areas.

Common to both test forms was question 4.

Someone said :
What is your relationship to Person 1?
Mark one box only.
Relationship of PERSON x to Person 1
- Husband or wife
- Partner (including same-sex partner)
- Son or daughter
- Step-child
- Brother or sister
- Mother or father
- Grandparent
- Step-mother/father
- Son/daughter-in-law
- Grandchild
- Other related
- Unrelated (including foster child)

So, if I am reading this correctly, in this question the CSO decided to mush into a single category those who are
(a) mixed-sex couples who are not married to each other;
(b) opposite sex couple who are not married to each other; and
(c) opposite sex couples who might have availed of the new legal status of civil partnership.

A further question on the form deals with a person's relationship status, but this time on their own, not how they are related to somebody else in the same household.

On one of the forms, the question and possible answers were

Someone said :
What is your legal marital or same-sex civil partnership status?
Answer if aged 15 years or over.
Mark one box only.
- Never married and never registered a same-sex civil partnership
- Married
- Separated, but still legally married
- Divorced
- Widowed
- In a registered same-sex civil partnership
- Formerly in a same-sex civil partnership which is now legally dissolved
- Surviving partner from a same-sex civil partnership

The other test form was a bit old fashioned

Someone said :
What is your current marital status?
Answer if aged 15 years or over.
Mark one box only.
- Single (never married)
- Married (first marriage)
- Re-married (following widowhood)
- Re-married (following divorce/annulment)
- Separated (including deserted)
- Divorced
- Widowed

The CSO has published a report on the pilot. Here's what they say.

On question 4 (the question that mushes three categories of couples into one census box) they say
Someone said :
The group recommended that the new variant of the question be adopted for 2011

going on to say that an explanatory note was yet to be decided.

On question 11 (the question on a person's status in their own right), they say
Someone said :
Given these results and the uncertainty about how the proposed legislation will develop, the group agreed that the 2006 variant of the question be retained for 2011.

The results they referred to included the following
Of those who selected one of the categories that dealt with civil partnerships (18 households) only 2 of these households were possibly correct with the remainder having clearly misunderstood the question categories

I wouldn't envy them their job, but I do think they made a hames of the wording of both question 4, by not separating out civil partners, and the "lgb-friendly" version of question 11. The options in question 11 a long (for a tick-box form) and legalistic, particularly on a form where most of the other questions have been designed to be easy to understand.

The legal document dealing with this is not particularly clear. After legal pomposity that goes with the start of these things, " I, Claudius BRIAN COWEN, Emperor Taoiseach, in exercise of the powers conferred on me ", the nuts and bolts amount to

Someone said :
[...]General nature of the information to be provided for the purpose of the census of population to be conducted in the year 2011.

[...]

in the case of a person aged 15 years or more: [...] marital status;

[...]
in the case of a person in a private household, relationship to each other person resident in that household on census night

Maybe some day we will be in the same position as Canada, where next year's census will ask people which of the following they are in relation to the first person on the household form
Someone said :
# Opposite-sex husband or wife of Person 1
# Opposite-sex common-law partner of Person 1
# Same-sex married spouse of Person 1
# Same-sex common-law partner of Person 1
# Son or daughter of Person 1 only
# Son-in-law or daughter-in-law of Person 1
# Grandchild of Person 1
# Father or mother of Person 1
# Father-in-law or mother-in-law of Person 1
# Brother or sister of Person 1
# Foster child
# Room-mate, lodger or boarder
# Other — Specify

Reply
 
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# 2 : Wednesday 4-8-2010 @ 23:44
 
 
Unrelated (including foster child)

That's just cold!
ReplyWebsite
 
# 3 : Wednesday 4-8-2010 @ 23:53
 
 
Someone said :
Next year (barring another foot and mouth outbreak, or similar), we will have a census. By that time, the Civil Partnership and Certain Rights and Obligations of Cohabitants Act 2010 should be in operation, assuming the government has no difficulty with the budget and the changes it is due to bring concerning the tax and social welfare status of registered couples.

Last year, the Central Statistics Office tested new wordings for census questions to take account of the planned new legal status. That test used two possible census forms, alternating them between the houses in the test areas.

Common to both test forms was question 4.

So, if I am reading this correctly, in this question the CSO decided to mush into a single category those who are
(a) mixed-sex couples who are not married to each other;
(b) opposite sex couple who are not married to each other; and
(c) opposite sex couples who might have availed of the new legal status of civil partnership.

A further question on the form deals with a person's relationship status, but this time on their own, not how they are related to somebody else in the same household.

On one of the forms, the question and possible answers were


The other test form was a bit old fashioned


The CSO has published a report on the pilot. Here's what they say.

On question 4 (the question that mushes three categories of couples into one census box) they say

going on to say that an explanatory note was yet to be decided.

On question 11 (the question on a person's status in their own right), they say

The results they referred to included the following

I wouldn't envy them their job, but I do think they made a hames of the wording of both question 4, by not separating out civil partners, and the "lgb-friendly" version of question 11. The options in question 11 a long (for a tick-box form) and legalistic, particularly on a form where most of the other questions have been designed to be easy to understand.

The legal document dealing with this is not particularly clear. After legal pomposity that goes with the start of these things, " I, Claudius BRIAN COWEN, Emperor Taoiseach, in exercise of the powers conferred on me ", the nuts and bolts amount to


Maybe some day we will be in the same position as Canada, where next year's census will ask people which of the following they are in relation to the first person on the household form

Do they not have to wait until civil partnership is an acting law, and very possibly just say I'm co-habiting with my partner, that is basically what it means. It's not always about the gay in you, it's about your rights as a person.
Reply
 
# 4 : Wednesday 4-8-2010 @ 23:58
 
 
Someone said :

just say I'm co-habiting with my partner, that is basically what it means.

I may be missing your point, but I don't think that is basically what the draft form says. One of the questions merges civil partners -- a legal status that will exist next April -- with non-legal forms of partnership. After all the fight over getting the state to legally recognise same-sex couples, the CSO goes and dumps that in the same bin as other forms of relationship that do not have a legal recognition.

Yes, if you are cohabiting, there is a suitable box for you; but not if you are legally registered.
Reply
 
# 5 : Thursday 5-8-2010 @ 00:00
 
 
Someone said :
Unrelated (including foster child)

That's just cold!

Yes, it is, isn't it. Maybe the consultation on the 2016 census should be used to get that changed.
Reply
 
# 6 : Thursday 5-8-2010 @ 00:05
 
 
The UK is having a census in 2011 too. It'd be interesting to see what wording they use in theirs for civil partnership.

Apparently, they are going to introduce full gay marriage in the UK by 2015. That'll shamefully be a very long time coming to Ireland let me tell ya!
ReplyWebsite
 
# 7 : Thursday 5-8-2010 @ 00:13
 
 
Someone said :

I may be missing your point, but I don't think that is basically what the draft form says. One of the questions merges civil partners -- a legal status that will exist next April -- with non-legal forms of partnership. After all the fight over getting the state to legally recognise same-sex couples, the CSO goes and dumps that in the same bin as other forms of relationship that do not have a legal recognition.

Yes, if you are cohabiting, there is a suitable box for you; but not if you are legally registered.

Do you mean all those check boxes that you posted are for real? noway, I'm sorry your government is screwing you guys, oh I sure you know but They are looking to make themselves look good. Stupid gobshites, sorry them not you.
Reply
 
# 8 : Thursday 5-8-2010 @ 00:24
 
 
Yeah I think foster child should be an option above unrelated
ReplyWebsite
 
# 9 : Thursday 5-8-2010 @ 20:32
 
 
Totally made a hames of question 4

also Ozren have you seen this

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBYQFjAA&url=h etc ...
Reply
 
# 10 : Thursday 5-8-2010 @ 20:47
 
 
Someone said :
Totally made a hames of question 4

also Ozren have you seen this

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBYQFjAA&url=h etc ...

Oh dear. They really don't do detail, do they?
Reply
 
# 11 : Saturday 15-1-2011 @ 21:34
 
 

These are the 2 questions on the census form

http://www.census.ie/The-Census-Form/Each-question-in-detail.109. etc ...

Question 4

What is your relationship to Person 1?
Mark one box only.
Relationship of PERSON x to Person 1
- Husband or wife
- Partner (including same-sex partner)
- Son or daughter
- Step-child
- Brother or sister
- Mother or father
- Grandparent
- Step-mother/father
- Son/daughter-in-law
- Grandchild
- Other related
- Unrelated (including foster child)

Question 5
What is your current marital status?
Answer if aged 15 years or over.
Mark one box only.
- Single (never married)
- Married (first marriage)
- Re-married (following widowhood)
- Re-married (following divorce/annulment)
- Separated (including deserted)
- Divorced
- Widowed

Ozren is correct above - they have basically messed up I think by not as such recognising civil partnerships (and there are hundreds that are now recognised)

In Q4 They are mushing together the following
Opposite sex couples who are unmarried and cohabiting
Same sex couples who are cohabiting
Same sex couples who are legally civil partners since 13th January

In Q5 they have not recognised civil partnership at all



Reply
 
# 12 : Saturday 15-1-2011 @ 21:44
 
 
how do people get these jobs of handing out and collecting the census forms - supposed to be good money in it ????
Reply
 
# 13 : Saturday 15-1-2011 @ 21:45
 
 
Someone said :
how do people get these jobs of handing out and collecting the census forms - supposed to be good money in it ????

Apply now on the website. The jobsearch was on the news. Might have closed by now.

I was interested but God knows how busy I'll be come April.
Reply
 
# 14 : Saturday 15-1-2011 @ 21:58
 
 
They should make it somewhat easier.

The amount of Census forms that apparently don't get returned, can't be collected etc.

People don't answer their doors anymore.

It should be done online or sent back by post etc.
Reply
 
# 15 : Friday 11-3-2011 @ 18:12
 
 
I just got my census form today.

Strange they don't have an option for those in a civil partnership, either an Irish or foreign one.
ReplyWebsite
 
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