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Recognition Of Irish Sign Language Bill Defeated In The Seanad
 
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# 1 : Thursday 23-1-2014 @ 21:04
 
 
Yesterday the Seanad had a debate then a vote on the Recognition of Irish Sign Language Bill. Unsurprisingly, it was defeated.
Kathleen Lynch, the Junior minister, said there was need of more services before ISL recognition had to be considered. Many Deaf people think that this is putting the cart before the horse. It will not work this way as service providers will not bother to improve or set up services for Deaf people as it is not legally binded unless ISL recoginiton is there. It is felt that If ISL is recognised then they will have to work hard to provide accessible services for Deaf people.

for the more politically minded people here who want to know what the politicans had to say, here is the full transcript of the Seanad debate yesterday.

From Page 31 to 43.....
http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debate etc ...

Labour? Typical.

I'd like to know what Gaireans had to say on the topic, both positive and negative, and even questioning.
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# 2 : Thursday 23-1-2014 @ 23:56
 
 
Someone said :
Kathleen Lynch, the Junior minister, said there was need of more services before ISL recognition had to be considered. Many Deaf people think that this is putting the cart before the horse.

I think those Deaf people are wrong. The right to have ISL recognised as an offical language should not be seen as a question of the sequencing of (a) recognising that a right and (b) providing services. Talking about Minister lynch getting it the wrong way around allows for the possibility that there is merit in her argument, and I think Deaf people should not allow her that ground. If she gets to frame the discussion in that way, then the case for a right is on the back foot from the start.

(Also, have you seen the page for tracking the Bill on the Oireachtas website? The description is the wrong one: " Bill entitled an Act to provide for the amendment of the Seanad Electoral (University Members) Acts 1937 to 2006 to provide for the provisions of the seventh amendment of Bunreacht na hÉireann and to extend the franchise of the University Panel of Seanad Éireann to all people who are over eighteen and legally resident in Ireland and are holders of an appropriate third level qualification from an Irish institute of higher education and to provide for related matters "

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# 3 : Friday 24-1-2014 @ 01:20
 
 
The bill doesn't go far enough. There are other minority Irish languages, that of Cant and Ulster Scots that should also be recognised along with ISL as official languages and but then that leaves the argument of non native languages such as Polish with much bigger minorities than any of the aforementioned?
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# 4 : Thursday 14-12-2017 @ 19:22
 
 
Similar bill is now passed!
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# 5 : Friday 15-12-2017 @ 08:18
 
 
Someone said :
The bill doesn't go far enough. There are other minority Irish languages, that of Cant and Ulster Scots that should also be recognised along with ISL as official languages and but then that leaves the argument of non native languages such as Polish with much bigger minorities than any of the aforementioned?

There is a fundamental difference between ISL and any of the other languages named: for some people, ISL is the only language they can use for non-written communication.

Unlike speakers of Shelta or Polish, they cannot be taught to have a conversation in English, or taught English to a level where they can give evidence and be cross-examined in court, or develop sufficient English skills to discuss treatment options with their doctor.
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# 6 : Friday 15-12-2017 @ 21:06
 
 
I think the whole bloody nonsense re the Irish language should be stopped, totally, for once and for all. It's for a very small minority and should be left to them.

Wasting money on this thing has been going on in this country since I was a kid in school. Most folk don't give a monkey's, and most don't speak it and don't give a flying fig about it.

It's not coming back folks, get over it!
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# 7 : Friday 15-12-2017 @ 21:58
 
 
oh dear
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# 8 : Friday 15-12-2017 @ 22:19
 
 
Someone said :
I think the whole bloody nonsense re the Irish language should be stopped, totally, for once and for all. It's for a very small minority and should be left to them.

Wasting money on this thing has been going on in this country since I was a kid in school. Most folk don't give a monkey's, and most don't speak it and don't give a flying fig about it.

It's not coming back folks, get over it!

Its part of the culture. The Spanish speak Spanish, and they teach Catalonian in Catalonia, not English.
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# 9 : Friday 15-12-2017 @ 23:59
 
 
Someone said :
I think the whole bloody nonsense re the Irish language should be stopped, totally, for once and for all. It's for a very small minority and should be left to them.

Oh those pesky minorities.
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# 10 : Saturday 16-12-2017 @ 02:19
 
 
Wouldn't the formation of a USL be a more pressing issue than the recognition of ISL..?
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# 11 : Saturday 16-12-2017 @ 23:14
 
 
Someone said :
Wouldn't the formation of a USL be a more pressing issue than the recognition of ISL..?

There is no such thing as USL. Getting legal recognition of ISL is only the start but if the momentum is maintained, lives will improve a lot for Deaf people who are ISL users and not fluent in English.
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# 12 : Saturday 16-12-2017 @ 23:17
 
 
Someone said :
I think the whole bloody nonsense re the Irish language should be stopped, totally, for once and for all. It's for a very small minority and should be left to them.

Wasting money on this thing has been going on in this country since I was a kid in school. Most folk don't give a monkey's, and most don't speak it and don't give a flying fig about it.

It's not coming back folks, get over it!

I agree with Kneel who says oh dear.



It's not about spoken Irish. It's about the sign language used in this country by Irish Citizens.
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# 13 : Saturday 16-12-2017 @ 23:18
 
 
Exactly, Ozren. You nailed it.
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# 14 : Sunday 17-12-2017 @ 22:18
 
 
Someone said :
Wouldn't the formation of a USL be a more pressing issue than the recognition of ISL..?

An Esperanto-type of sign language ("Gestuno") would be an ineptie.
It would deny deaf people their cultural backgrounds, and simply be impossible.

Sign language is not a symbolic language disconnected from the national language it is developed into: it carries some of the structures and specificities of the cultures is is developed in. And its grammar is heavily impacted by that of its host culture. And this is the most dramatically evident in the concept of "mouthing", which is closely connected (but not directly or exclusively correlated) to how the host spoken language is... spoken!

Think for a second about how Japanese and English differ, and how that impacts JSL versus the various English-based sign languages.

The "International Sign Language" is a pidgin, a "Gestuno" with limited vocab or usage. It is a useful technical tool, but it would as impossible to make it "universal", ad it is impossible to define a single "Gaeilge" that would unify all canúintí: An Caighdeán Oifigiúil itself is only a technical and administrative tool, native to no-one...
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# 15 : Monday 18-12-2017 @ 00:59
 
 
Someone said :
An Esperanto-type of sign language ("Gestuno") would be an ineptie.
It would deny deaf people their cultural backgrounds, and simply be impossible.

Sign language is not a symbolic language disconnected from the national language it is developed into: it carries some of the structures and specificities of the cultures is is developed in. And its grammar is heavily impacted by that of its host culture. And this is the most dramatically evident in the concept of "mouthing", which is closely connected (but not directly or exclusively correlated) to how the host spoken language is... spoken!

Think for a second about how Japanese and English differ, and how that impacts JSL versus the various English-based sign languages.

The "International Sign Language" is a pidgin, a "Gestuno" with limited vocab or usage. It is a useful technical tool, but it would as impossible to make it "universal", ad it is impossible to define a single "Gaeilge" that would unify all canúintí: An Caighdeán Oifigiúil itself is only a technical and administrative tool, native to no-one...

You make some very eloquent points there Blah & i'm not trying to be glib about this .. wouldn't a universal sign language be better so as deaf people all over the world had a common tongue in which to converse, spanglish for the hard of hearing so too speak..?
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