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Ireland's Abortion Referendum 2018
 
# 46 : Thursday 30-11-2017 @ 18:40
 
 
You seem to have enough as it is.
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# 47 : Thursday 30-11-2017 @ 18:51
 
 
Someone said :
OMG... Shock horror, Here's an actual real life woman who holds the same views as i do.. She's obviously a crackpot, quick, lets Impeach & silence her, she has no idea what she's talking about..

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/ucd-students-to-hold-im etc ...

What are you on about?

She doesnt have the same views as you. She wants to force raped women to give birth. And silencing? Thats a joke. In her 6 months in office she tried at every opportunity possible to silence pro choice campaigning. She censored pro choice information. She attempted to cut UCDs repeal budget. She tried to shove ucd pro choice campaigner out of the way into a hidden corner.

But yes you do have a judgemental victorian attitude to women and womens sexuality as displayed above
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# 48 : Thursday 30-11-2017 @ 18:54
 
 
I guess as a 43 year old Male who's all for prostitution you'd kinda need abortion to be legal so as not to get slapped with several paternity suits a year..
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# 49 : Thursday 30-11-2017 @ 19:03
 
 
Someone said :
I guess as a 43 year old Male who's all for prostitution you'd kinda need abortion to be legal so as not to get slapped with several paternity suits a year..

wowwww, that makes beyond no sense!
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# 50 : Thursday 30-11-2017 @ 19:05
 
 
Someone said :
I guess as a 43 year old Male who's all for prostitution you'd kinda need abortion to be legal so as not to get slapped with several paternity suits a year..

Agreeing with prostitution doesn't particularly change anything....
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# 51 : Thursday 30-11-2017 @ 19:41
 
 
Someone said :
Agreeing with prostitution doesn't particularly change anything....

Yes, because i'm such a Morally corrupt Victorian minded simpleton I actually think that Prostitution should be legalized.. (the Australian model works for me) If someone wants to sell their body for profit that's OK with me. That's their choice.. I just feel that all those unborn children who end up as medical waste should be allowed to have that choice too..
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# 52 : Thursday 30-11-2017 @ 20:40
 
 
Someone said :
wowwww, that makes beyond no sense!

WWoooowwwww, maybe when you are awake some time read the signature of SUGARTITS & you may get some 'sense' of the point i'm actually making..
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# 53 : Thursday 30-11-2017 @ 23:49
 
 
Someone said :
WWoooowwwww, maybe when you are awake some time read the signature of SUGARTITS & you may get some 'sense' of the point i'm actually making..

You are not making any sense.
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# 54 : Thursday 30-11-2017 @ 23:51
 
 
Someone said :
Yes, because i'm such a Morally corrupt Victorian minded simpleton I actually think that Prostitution should be legalized.. (the Australian model works for me) If someone wants to sell their body for profit that's OK with me. That's their choice.. I just feel that all those unborn children who end up as medical waste should be allowed to have that choice too..

Correct. Your judgemental attitude towards women and womens sexuality is victorian.
Reply
 
# 55 : Friday 1-12-2017 @ 00:02
 
 
Someone said :
WWoooowwwww, maybe when you are awake some time read the signature of SUGARTITS & you may get some 'sense' of the point i'm actually making..

nope
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# 56 : Friday 1-12-2017 @ 00:03
 
 
Oh you idiot! You truly must be devoid of any intellect if you are dragging my forum signature into an abortion debate. If you note the quotes, it's a quote and not mine. Oh you fool!

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# 57 : Wednesday 13-12-2017 @ 15:11
 
 
Seems committee will vote for unrestricted access to abortion up to 12 weeks.

This is the simplest and wisest choice, the 12 weeks figure makes sense:
- 6-9 weeks is when the placenta takes over to produce its own hormones to keep the fetus stay in the womb. Up to that point it is the ovaries' hormones that keep the embryo in the womb. In other words, up to 9 weeks, the embryo has no "self-sustaining" characteristics, and termination should be available without any question being asked.
- 9 to 12 weeks is when the fetal stage starts, till the end of the first trimester...
- 12 weeks is when reflexes start to develop. It is as big a lime, its face has formed, and its nervous system is blooming. It can feel pain without a doubt.

Up to the 12th week, miscarriages (natural terminations...) are very likely. It is the first trimester...
Contrariwise, the last trimester is when the fetus is "viable": it could be born premature and have more than 50% chance of survival.

After the first trimester, the fetus is firmly established in the womb, its features are very much fully human, and it is the time from which it becomes more questionable to get terminations "on demand", and where terminations should really only be for specific medical reasons.

After 12 weeks, it is fair to consider that the woman has had time to consider her choices. And from that point it is fair to take into account the viability of the fetus.

The exact same timeline exist in France, for the very reason that it is based on biology. (Medicinal termination up to end of 7th week, instrumental up to end of 12th week)
By the way, 12 weeks pregnancy means 14 weeks after the last periods.

This deadline, associated with a real sex education, will help make pregnancy a fully informed choice, whatever the circumstances that led to it. Summary: - First trimester: dependent embryo turns into co-dependent fetus. Abortion OK. Woman's choice.
- Second trimester: abortion mostly not OK, unless dramatic reasons. Not the woman's choice, but society's choice.
- Third trimester: abortion nearly never OK, unless life of mother at play, or fetus viability after birth unlikely.

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# 58 : Wednesday 13-12-2017 @ 17:05
 
 
Someone said :
I guess as a 43 year old Male who's all for prostitution you'd kinda need abortion to be legal so as not to get slapped with several paternity suits a year..

Do you not use protection, do your prostitutes not insist on it and surely the are on the pill if not?
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# 59 : Wednesday 13-12-2017 @ 19:00
 
 
Fine lines..

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/12/13/health/baby-heart-chest-surgery etc ..." class=highslide onClick="return hs.expand(this)" style="cursor: url(../highslide/graphics/zoomin.cur), pointer;">http://edition.cnn.com/2017/12/13/health/baby-heart-chest-surgery etc ..." width=300 height=300 title='Click To Enlarge Image' style=border:5px solid #ffffff;>
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# 60 : Wednesday 13-12-2017 @ 19:32
 
 
Someone said :
Fine lines..

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/12/13/health/baby-heart-chest-surgery etc ..." class=highslide onClick="return hs.expand(this)" style="cursor: url(../highslide/graphics/zoomin.cur), pointer;">http://edition.cnn.com/2017/12/13/health/baby-heart-chest-surgery etc ..." width=300 height=300 title='Click To Enlarge Image' style=border:5px solid #ffffff;>

Not a thin line at all!

The parents did all they could to save their child, despite the risk of disability or short-lived birth. It is their choice: no line there.

If they had chosen by week 9, when the condition was discovered, to terminate the pregnancy, it would have been their choice: no line there either.

And given the gravity of the condition, and the very low odds of the child having a god quality of life, if they had decided at week 16 to have an "out of delay" termination, I would think that it may have been justified if the medical advice supported i: no line there either, just a classical ethical decision balancing multiple ventage points.

The baby they chose to bring to birth, and put through a lot of traumatic (and life saving) surgeries is now in a position where "her chances are a lot better." But the article says very little on her actual "quality of life" and long term survival odds.

There is no thin line: they chose to bring her to life (which would be justified even if she had died after 3 minutes); they could have equally decided that they did not wish to put her and themselves through it. Both decisions are valid in that concept.

It is not a "thin" line just because she "survived" against the odds, in a case that could have led to an abortion into another context; especially because she is not out of the woods at all.
The doctors strongly recommended a termination, but respected the parent's choice and put all the possible ressources behind them to support them.

It is not a case where the doctors wanted to force them to terminate, to eventually find out that the child is 100% fine and will have no long-term damage. Her odds at surviving medium-term are slim. Better than if she had been terminated, obviously, but slim. Now the parents have to envisage how they will make her life bearable, and have to accept the high cost of all the medical support she will need, and the sufferings she will have to endure in the near future.

Not a fine line. Just a choice that has so far paid off thanks to extraordinary investment.
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