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Ireland's Abortion Referendum 2018
 
# 76 : Wednesday 10-1-2018 @ 23:10
 
 
Someone said :
Because a referendum leads to legislation, not the other way round?

It does, but typically the gvt will provide the draft Heads of the legislation they intend to submit for the consideration of the Oireachtas.

This is not a constitutional obligation, but it is the done thing to give an idea of what laws they want to change: otherwise why change the Constitution at all!

This is not even a legal requirement, but it can be considered to be a contribution to support the role of the Referendum Commission to "prepare (i) a statement or statements containing a general explanation of the subject matter of the proposal and of the text thereof in the relevant Bill and any other information relating to those matters that the Commission considers appropriate[...]"
(Note that the Bill referred to is the Bill establishing the referendum, the "Act
to amend the Constitution", no the bills being passed after the referendum is passed)

It is a democratic courtesy, and obviously the final text adopted by the Oireachtas could be different... This is an example of the suggested Marriage Bill changes suggested for the last referendum on marriage: http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/PB15000072
It states:
IMPORTANT: The General Scheme of the Marriage Bill 2015 presents, in the
form of 11 Heads, measures which would, in the event that the 34th Amendment
of the Constitution (Marriage Equality) Bill 2015 is passed by both Houses and
approved in a referendum, be drafted as a formal Bill and introduced by the
Government following the referendum. It should be noted that the General
Scheme will, if introduced in these circumstances, be subject to change
consequent on formal drafting
.

You can compare it to the act actually enacted: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2015/act/35/enacted/en/print.h etc ...



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# 77 : Wednesday 10-1-2018 @ 23:20
 
 
Someone said :
It is indeed lazy to jump to conclusion when you read or hear report that seem to support/meet your opinion, without somehow checking it.
The likelihood is that you either you misunderstood the report, or that it was quoting some opposition wack-job making wild uninformed accusation.

Nope.. it was an official story on RTE Website.. Guess Leo spent his 5 million well on Communications to get it pulled so fast..
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# 78 : Wednesday 10-1-2018 @ 23:46
 
 
Someone said :
Nope.. it was an official story on RTE Website.. Guess Leo spent his 5 million well on Communications to get it pulled so fast..

Well, if it was not accurate, it was just correcting a mistaken story! Nothing to do with spin doctors manipulating the official media! That story pretty much followed the definition of fake news!

Reports on the 18th, from RTE and other sources, all reported that the gvt decision will be collectively agreed (with an update later that day to clarify that some in gvt may have differing opinions), and that they would publish the draft bills.

This is what you may have read about:
Mr Varadkar said there are to be two different bills arising out of the Oireachtas committee on the Eighth Amendment - one referendum bill, and then a separate bill detailing the health side of things, legislating for any new policy.

Mr Varadkar said: "Two things are required. One referendum bill, to allow for a referendum, and that would have to be in January or February - to make the May/June deadline, that would be required in January or February.

" We don’t have to, but I think it would be prudent to produce a general scheme of legislation that would then follow from a Yes vote in a referendum, just as was the case in Marriage Equality and Divorce, and other referendums where people want to know what the intention is from government and from legislators after an amendment is made to the Constitution.

“So it is the intention – I think that would be prudent, and common sense – to produce the general scheme of any legislation before the people are asked to vote on the amendment, even though it’s not necessary. It’s prudent and wise to do that," he said.

So you could have read it too fast, or it may have been reported as "it is not the intention" by mistake/typo then corrected, or reported with misleading headline "we don't have to": but it was obviously always the intention, as is usually done in such cases!
(Within a few hour of your post on the 18th, I was already quoting you the info found on multiple sources, as your claim was so "out there"...)



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# 79 : Sunday 14-1-2018 @ 23:28
 
 
I bow to your wisdom on the subject.. How do you think the challenge to the Supreme court will pan out..?

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2018/0111/932505-abortion-supreme- etc ...
Reply
 
# 80 : Monday 15-1-2018 @ 02:29
 
 
I wish it was over already, what is the point of legislating or not for something people just go to another jurisdiction to solve?
In NI the UK gov pays women their travel expenses to go to Britain for an abortion.
They should do the same here if they can't sort it out.
For women with emergencies during pregnancy who can't travel that far they should build a hospital in the British embassy grounds and ambulance them there for emergency abortions where required.
Reply
 
# 81 : Monday 15-1-2018 @ 07:46
 
 
Someone said :
I wish it was over already, what is the point of legislating or not for something people just go to another jurisdiction to solve?
In NI the UK gov pays women their travel expenses to go to Britain for an abortion.
They should do the same here if they can't sort it out.
For women with emergencies during pregnancy who can't travel that far they should build a hospital in the British embassy grounds and ambulance them there for emergency abortions where required.

Or they could just allow abortion here and in Norn Iron. Simple.

We have to referendum first though so keep May 25th and June 1st free and why not join your local campaign too.
Reply
 
# 82 : Monday 15-1-2018 @ 16:03
 
 
Someone said :
I bow to your wisdom on the subject.. How do you think the challenge to the Supreme court will pan out..?

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2018/0111/932505-abortion-supreme- etc ...

My first reaction is always to look at the Irish wording: "(ceart na mbeo gan breith chun a mbeatha", or "right of the living being without birth to their life".

So the constitution, even in the simple English "right to life of the unborn", accepts that it is a form of life.
It also distinguishes two meaning to "life":
- biological life starting at conception ("beo")
- meaningful human life once born ("beatha")

The question put to the constitution court is not if it is a life, but if it is a "child", as in "an unborn child". If it were, then it would have the same rights as a child, like in this case the right to live in Ireland as a citizen. It would have more than a "right to live" defined for the "unborn", it would have extended rights defined for "children", like the right to not be deported.

This is where the Irish is interesting: it is not using any shortcut like English does. If the legislator had meant "unborn child", they would have spelled it out in the Gaeilge "leanbh/leanaí/linbh".

Instead the clearly referred to a life not yet born, and its right to live. Not a child not yet born.
Someone said :
I wish it was over already, what is the point of legislating or not for something people just go to another jurisdiction to solve?
In NI the UK gov pays women their travel expenses to go to Britain for an abortion.
They should do the same here if they can't sort it out.
For women with emergencies during pregnancy who can't travel that far they should build a hospital in the British embassy grounds and ambulance them there for emergency abortions where required.

Your idea is great: we should do that for mortgages too. Why bother having branches in Ireland when we could simply go to the UK... or to Germany.
And for Cadbury eggs.

You are much smarter than I ever could give you credit for.
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# 83 : Wednesday 17-1-2018 @ 13:32
 
 
Someone said :
Your idea is great: we should do that for mortgages too. Why bother having branches in Ireland when we could simply go to the UK... or to Germany.
And for Cadbury eggs.

You are much smarter than I ever could give you credit for.

Why shouldn't German banks operate here? They offer much lower mortgages than our banks and more interesting financial solutions.
A bit of serious competition never did anybody any harm ...even a bank.

In relation to abortion it's thick to legislate one way when walking across the border negates the legislation and who suffers the women who have anything to do with their uteruses and their fallopian tubes and their eggs be they fertilized and living or not because our women end up dead anyway.

Northern Ireland - Arlene foster came down here a woman talking about living as a neighbour , the gov she is part of pays women their transport costs to go to Britain for abortions, she needs to show some empathy and sort out her party.
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# 84 : Wednesday 17-1-2018 @ 21:24
 
 
Someone said :
Why shouldn't German banks operate here? [...]

Do you really not get that "we could simply go [...] to Germany" is based on the premise that Germany is not "here" but in... Germany?
The same way that one needs to go to the UK to get services in... the UK...

I will give you credit and assume it may have been an attempt at being humorous.
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# 85 : Thursday 18-1-2018 @ 20:17
 
 
8
Someone said :
Do you really not get that "we could simply go [...] to Germany" is based on the premise that Germany is not "here" but in... Germany?
The same way that one needs to go to the UK to get services in... the UK...

I will give you credit and assume it may have been an attempt at being humorous.

You brought it up what's up did you lose the thread of your point? strange that maybe you had none
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# 86 : Monday 22-1-2018 @ 22:30
 
 
Someone said :
8
You brought it up what's up did you lose the thread of your point? strange that maybe you had none

Do you have anything to contribute yourself? Other than attacking other posters?
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# 87 : Tuesday 23-1-2018 @ 06:51
 
 
Has anyone planned for postal vote in case they are not around on the voting date?
On the other side has anyone heard about hordes of people planning to "come home" for it?

I doubt people will care as deeply on the YES side, as did for the universal marriage referendum. They will "couch-care", but that will be it. Not as much "vested interests".
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# 88 : Tuesday 23-1-2018 @ 11:52
 
 
#Repealthisthread.
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# 89 : Tuesday 23-1-2018 @ 15:52
 
 
Someone said :
Do you have anything to contribute yourself? Other than attacking other posters?

Like you, you mean?
Please list examples of your contributions?
While you are at it list mine ...
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# 90 : Tuesday 23-1-2018 @ 21:49
 
 
Someone said :
While you are at it list mine ...

All you do is snark at other posters
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